Deadwing

In response to:Shakedown remix

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:38:29 +0200

Overall this is a better mix - seems tighter and cleaner. I like the new ending with the added guitar. I think the vocals need some more reverb/echo to lift them a bit - I think because there are no backing vocals, it is more obvious that the voacals are a bit flat. Better then the original however, which did have a lot of reverb, I think, but the reverb wasn't of the best quality. I also think the guitar effect in the backing riff on the solo sounds wrong, but I guess that's easily fixed - sounds a bit too over-processed somehow. Apart from this, I really like the mix. I also really like the song. We have been talking about trying to complete a song remotely - why not this one The drums sound so old-fashioned, the guitar effect is fairly basic, and there are no backing vocals. The strings are also a bit out-dated. I think we could really improve this song by re-recording. I might have a go at least by looking at the drums and guitar parts and see what I can come up with.

In response to:Shakedown remix

Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:24:20 +0200

Hi there, comments positive or negative very welcome. The problem with mixing down is that you can very quickly lose perspective because you are listening over and over again, so your objective ear is very valuable. Anyway, give it a few more listens and let me know what you think. We're off on holiday for a week now, so I'll respond to any comments when I get back . Cheers

In response to:Shakedown remix

Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:51:16 +0200

Not sure about this one yet. Trouble is my speakers are playing up so had to listen on headphones. I thought the chorus was a little flat - I think this is because the Hammond organ wasn't as prominent. The guitar solo bit sounded a bit odd. Not sure why - some of the background guitar on the solo had perhaps too much echo or something. Also thought the vocals in the original had quite a lot of reverb or something and this has gone - not sure if this is a good thing. Still need to listen some more so will put some more comments on later after few more listens. Sorry to be negative on initial listen, but perhaps need to hear it on better speakers.

In response to:Shakedown remix

Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:10:22 +0200

BTW these are the changes I've made:

1. V-vocal and eq vocals in normal way
2. Added slight reverb to overall mix and one or two instruments
3. Used the VC-64 all over the place and this seems to have tightened things up
4. Used the Guitar Rig on the guitar riff which back up the intro to the solo
5. Copied and pasted the guitar intro onto the outro section and faded out there.

I hope things are improved. I know I said I wasn't going to bother with the old stuff, but I couldn't resist trying to out to see if it improves things. Comments welcome...

In response to:Little Circles remix

Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:53:36 +0200

The mix sounds better. Piano sounds louder, drums sound warmer - only problem is the backing vocals - I think there was a reason why they are so low in the mix and that's because they aren't very good. In places they just clash with the main vocals. It may be something we can fix with V-Vocal. The other thing is the backing vocals sound a bit to synthesised - don't know if this is becasue I'm doing falsetto, but it sounds like the really obvious vocal stretching that is done on some Cher songs. Saying that however, the chorus backing vocals really goes well. I think if the backing vocals were a bit lower and in tune it might be OK. The song really needs a little more interest as well, but difficult to know what to do with it. Maybe strings to add some dynamics. But definitely an improvement from the original.

In response to:One Day remix

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 10:35:50 +0200

On first listen this sounds lovely. The acoustic guitar especially sounds transformed - really clear and bright -like we used an expensive guitar. The vocals sound good -the backing vocals are more audible and sound good. The piano gets a bit lost at times. I love the lonely guitar ending, although everything else stops a bit abruptly - may have to juggle a bit with the drums - not sure of there is scope to do this. Guitar solo seems a bit louder, which I think is OK.

In response to:Ghostwheel remix

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 10:25:06 +0200

This mix is very good. The bass especially comes a lot more - I had actually forgotten what I had played, but hearing it again is brilliant. Vocals sound good. Guitar is better. Very pleased with this. I do think it do with something else in the M8. Not sure what yet.

In response to:Ghostwheel remix

Wed, 30 May 2007 19:34:39 +0200

Thanks for the comments they're really helpful. You get to a point when mixing down when you lose objectivity so having another honest outside view is essential. So...

1. I've increased the lead vocals in a few places very slighty
2. I've re-done the bass guitar and tried different settings on the Guitar Rig and VC-64. I think we've improved things. The bass now takes up more of the lower end of the mix and fills things out a bit more - I think!!
3. I've eased off the high pass filter on the guitar to warm things up.
I think that's it for the moment. I will post the latest version for further comment. The only thing now, barring a few tweaks with the mix is to decide whether we add anything to the M8. It sounds much better than it used to so I'm not sure now.

BTW with all the little changes I've made it could have put some other instruments out of kilter, so please comment on this too.

In response to:Ghostwheel remix

Tue, 29 May 2007 16:40:09 +0200

Overall a good mix. It took quite a bit to get used to the vocals - at first I thought they were over processed, but I think it is just that the backing vocal's are audible and they really change the feel of the song - sounds a bit more ethereal. Drums sound really good. I wondered if the guitar was a bit too tinny - better than the original which was a bit too muddy, but perhaps need a little more warmth in the guitar. It all seems to hang together better in this mix. The original was a bit segmented with the odd extended middle section, but this doesn't seem so evident in the new mix. Synths sound good - sit in the mix well. The chorus sound fantastic when it kicks in. I can hear glimpses of the bass, but seems a bit too quiet. I think the bass is actually playing some really interesting stuff but gets a bit lost. I don't think it needs to be louder, just more pronounced.

Great song though.

In response to:Absolute remix

Tue, 15 May 2007 23:38:31 +0200

Thanks for the comments on Absolute they are really helpful. I think we are nearly there with it. I will adjust the mix based on your comments and re-post. Also I like the idea of changing/adding stuff, but we do need to be careful of knowing when to stop. We don't want to destroy the essence of the sessions. However there are improvements to be made so yes let's go for it!

PS I did try leaving out the guitar for the last verse but it was a bit dead. I will experiment further.

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Sat, 12 May 2007 18:46:43 +0200

It's been good to put a bit of a distance between the recording session and taking stock of the results. I'm really, really pleased too with the results. I do love 'The Faithless' and the way is subtly speeds up and builds to that great M8.

I'm also pleased overall with the guitar sounds (and bass too). The Guitar Rig 2 made a real difference I think and gave us a lot more options and flexibility. I just love those Fripp/Muse-like guitar solos in all the songs. It add an edgy quality to the songs.

Chaotica/Kaotika I really like (I like the 'K'). Very mellow chords over this mad dance/industrial rythmn. And written and recorded in a matter of hours really. The others were much more of a struggle, but this just seemed to flow.

Glass is cool too. I lovely the funky/mellow feel to it, contrasting with the mad techo-like synth line.

I really enjoyed this recording session - like you said the hat and the laughs were great - even though at one point I thought it was all going to fall apart, but we always feel like that at some point, it seems to be part of the process. Roll on next time!

In the meantime - mix down... Watch for more threads on this

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Thu, 10 May 2007 22:28:09 +0200

So, few weeks after the recording session - I'm listening through the rough mixes again - very happy with the 3 songs we've created. 'The Faithless' - a kind of musing on religion and what it means - bit undecided, unlike the Rush version of 'Faithless' which is very much against religion. Great slow start and gentle increase in tempo. Brilliant Muse-like middle section - lovely synth sounds on this track.

Chaotica (or Kaotika - not sure how it's spelt yet) - totally made up on the day. Inspired a bit by a Bjork dance track. Was originally going to be based around a Fibonacci sequence riff, but that went out the window and we went with an odd C chord that Rich understands better then I do. Lovely mellow sound despite the heavy randomised drums. Still some work to do on this - maybe using the impromtu bits of speech recorded on the day.

And 'Glass', pretty much as I wrote it originally, redeemed I think by a last minute change in drum sounds from Rock to a more techno sound - again some great synth sounds that make the song. I like the odd rhythm in this one - probably the most interesting rhythm we've done.

Altogether a good recording session - lots of laughs, occasional worries, trance dancing and a red cowbot hat - what could be better. Keen to start writing and recording some new stuff now.

In response to:Absolute remix

Thu, 10 May 2007 22:19:40 +0200

This mix sounds fantastic. The drums sound much tighter, and the vocals are great. So much better than the original mix. Acoustic guitar is obviously louder, but
I think this sounds good - gives it a more rhythmic quality. I think there is some scope for removing the acoustic guitar in some places - I noticed one of
final verses is quieter, and it might be worth removing, or bringing the guitar down in that final verse and letting synth carry the verse for even more contrast. Bass sounded a bit quiet, but that might be the speakers I'm using, and I don't think its necessarily a bad thing. The radio bits sound good louder in the intro. I noticed a funny synth note in the quiet verse -
just after the word gravity.

Have noticed that the vocals are very slightly out now - I think they are coming in very slightly late.

I also love the ending - going right to the end rather than fading out. I love the noise at the end - not sure what it is , I think me just being a bit noisy with the guitar. There may be scope in removing some guitar from the ending - maybe fading the guitar out earlier than the rest and leaving the synths to end the song in a meandering way.

But overall I think it has given the song new life. It is so tempting to go in there and start messing with the actual substance of the song, but I think we should probably resist meddling too much unless it is for a really good reason. Plenty more songs to ne re-mixed I guess. How do you feel about changing musical content of some of these now we have such a greater range of great sounds?

In response to:Technical setup

Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:58:48 +0200

Although we've finished our recording for this session, I thought I would just complete the record of our technical set up. Rich Graves kindly lent us his Audio-Technica AT4040SM microphone along with some mic pre amps and a headphone amplifier/distribution box. All of which worked really well. The mic seemed to be very smooth and suited Gav's vocals well. We created a makeshift vocal booth in the hallway this time. I think this worked better than having us cramped into the dining room.

I set up the keyboard and computer with a wireless pull out keyboard and mouse and I was really pleased with the ergonomics of the setup.

We had a few technical hitches with Sonar 6 but we solved those eventually, and in the end the work flow was very efficient. Once we got used to the product I think the work flow was more efficient that Cubase. We had a few scary moment when one of the songs wouldn't load. But once I'd updated the NI Massive synth to the latest version we had less problems.

Using the NI Guitar Rig was brilliant, and much more flexible that using the Pod (although the Pod is still great). We used GuitarRig for the bass too and that seemed to give the bass much more presence than we have had in previous recordings.

Anyway enough for the minute. I will create a new thread for the mix down process.

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:37:40 +0200

Hi there, I'm relaxed about the number of songs we do. The fact that we now have much more flexibility after the event with Sonar/Cubase which makes the final mix down much less critical. We can even fine tune the songs and add bits later. I remember when we did Little Circle, which was very simple, we got the main elements down and I always wanted to come back and add little bits to it, but we couldn't as it was on 16 track ADAT. Now we have that more options, so if we have time lets go for it. It is important that we get the vocals well recorded whatever we do, and the main ideas for each instrument. Extras can come later. I also like the idea of Sacred or Fated. I quite like the ambiguity of some of titles e.g. the sacred nature of our lives regardless of religion. I think there is real scope here. I'll listen to the stuff on box and let you know what I think.

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:13:11 +0200

I know you won't be happy with this, but I'm quite keen on doing a 4th song. I've written quite a mellow, laid back song which I can't get out of my head, and I think it could be really good. However, I don't want to lose any of the other ideas as we have spent a lot of time in thinking about themes, and I've got a lot of musical ideas for 'Glass' and 'The Faithless'. I also don't want to lose the experimental 'dance' track (although I think I want to lose the 'Fibonacci' title). I know we are always pushed for time even with 3 songs, but I reckon we can do a 4th if we lose a bit of final mixing time and keep the song simple - I guess the mixing could be done remotely. The song is actually on box.net under the title 'Faithless' - my original idea for this name, but now the radiohead style song is called the Faithless, I'm thinking of calling it something like 'Sacred' or 'Fated' - has to be similar 2 syllable word to fit the song. Sacred could be how our lives are sacred, perhaps, irrespective of religion. Also like the idea of fate - perhaps something to think about.

In response to:Technical setup

Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:01:01 +0100

I've now got the Fender, but I've decided not to lug the big monitor speakers from Forest. If we don't get on with the smaller speakers I'll go to the Forest on Tuesday night. A few things left to do - keyboard undershelf, buy or borrow some headphones for vocal monitor, setting up a makeshift vocal booth (using quilts etc). I also need to ask Rich G about borrowing his mikes.

I'm going to wear my Indian headdress for recording keyboards!!!!

In response to:Technical setup

Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:33:29 +0100

I think this might be quite interesting to try if it's not too time consuming. Especially with our thoughts about using the Fibonacci sequence in one of the tracks - don't know how feasible this is with the arpegiator. Here's an interesting link about algorithmic composition - this is where I saw the comment about Mozart using the roll of dice in composition.

http://www.it.rit.edu/~jab/Fibo98/

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:26:31 +0100

I think this is why I enjoy camping so much, because it does have that sense of getting away from the pressures of modern life, and you can be outdoors in public view, but not need those glass cocoons. Interesting that when I'm out walking near the canal that runs next to our house, meeting someone on the way always prompts a greeting of some sort - it's sort of rude not to say hello to strangers in these circumstances. In the city, it is the opposite. It's almost as if we share the space by the canal with others, but in the city we keep our space very tightly to ourselves.

In response to:Technical setup

Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:20:24 +0100

Well done Rich. Glad you're on top of the techy stuff as I haven't got much of a clue. As far as guitars go, we'll be using a Fender telecaster and Ovation acoustic guitar, and my rather ancient blue Rickenbacker bass guitar, one of my prized possessions. I also have a yellow plectrum if I don't lose it before the recording session, and a cool cowboy hat that I plan to wear when playing the guitar parts.

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:34:38 +0100

I think a lot of other people have looked at how the Fibonacci sequence can be used in music, one of them calling their piece 'Fibonacci'. I think some of this is more computational creation of music, but some composers in the past have apparently used the sequence.

http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibInArt.html#music

Quite interesting reading. Somewhere in here I saw a comment about Mozart and the fact that he experimented a little in using random sequences to generate music. Perhaps we should have a short sequence in the final song which is generated randomly.

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:28:25 +0100

I think the line about faith leading to war is based on the worn out argument that all wars are started because of religion. I don't know if this is quite true, but it does seem that most of the ongoing wars or terrorism is linked to religion in some way. I was amazed as well to hear about a case where a devout christian in America murdered a doctor, I think, who was involved in providing abortions. The person was considered to be a very good Christian, if that's the right word, and he apparently felt he had done the right thing, arguing that by taking one life he had saved many others. So it is interesting the deep faith can lead to both extremes of human nature - to extreme love and extreme hate. On one hand someone give their life to save someone else, because this is the love that their religion teaches them, and on the other hand someone kills because of their religious beliefs. This idea may be worth adding to the lyrics somehow.

I've worked on the song a little more and developed some of the melody lines. In the latest demo (2The Faithless") I changed the original vocal line for the verse, and tried a different chorus, but I've decided the original verse was better, and have also changed the chorus, so I guess I'll demo this live next week. I've incorporated the line 'To the faithless' - so the chorus goes:
'They call me the faithless x 2
This is to the faithless' x 2
I was also looking at multi-layering vocal lines towards the end of the song as it builds up. I think we could almost build it up to the point of shouting. Don't know if I can pull that off, but might be fun. There is a song I heard recently by the Proclaimers which is incredible because the second half of the song is basically the two of them shouting out the same phrase repeatedly until it becomes unrecognisable.

In response to:Technical setup

Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:46:51 +0100

Hurrah! I transferred one of our old New World songs called Absolute from 16 Track DAT to Sonar 6 tonight. I did it as a test to make sure that Sonar worked using audio recording as I had a few glitches initially with it. It all worked fine and seemed to be stable. Fingers crossed I think that Sonar is now all ready for when Gav comes down. All the MIDI stuff seems to work and I don't get the MIDI delay problem we experienced with Cubase. So I think it is goodbye to Cubase. I might experiment with converting our three DeadWing songs to Sonar as a 'load test', as these songs use VST instruments quite extensively and some big sample based sounds.

In response to:Technical setup

Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:51:15 +0100

I read all about using the arpegiator in FM8 today. I think there's real mileage in us exploring how technology can create patterns for us and then to develop those patterns using rules which we create in tandem with the machine. I normally like to play stuff (and still will continue to do so) but using technology yo push out the boundaries in tandem with human technique will be interesting. We use technology for nearly every other aspect of recording music so why not for pattern creation and development?

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:47:38 +0100

The 'Glass' theme is sounding good too. It's interesting that we all like to create our own little glass cocoons. And we only like that cocoon to be penetrated by means that we permit. Mobiles and iPods create that cocoon and Mobiles can penetrate it too. People let in their own little mobile friends, fanatasies etc. I think that these glass cocoons are a modern, urban phenomenon. Because life presses on us, and our personal spaces are invaded by those around us on the tube, on the train, on the bus, on the pavements, in tiny flats, etc etc there's no escape. The only way out is to create our own little virtual space with technology. Japan which is the most densely populated country in the world has the highest demand for miniature, personal technology gadgets. It's interesting that if you're on the top of a desolate mountain the last thing you want is an ipod or mobile phone. Your little glass dome has just expanded by thousands of miles and you just want to expand to fill the space and not be limited by your technological glass barrier.

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:38:16 +0100

I like the ideas for faithless or The Faithless and the few lines you have sound good. It's interesting that essentially faith is irrational and many of 'the faithful' don't like to admit that. They construct elaborate proofs around their particular worldview and forget that to actually setp inside their little constructed world takes an irrational step of faith. Now I don't have a problem with that, but I think you have to be honest and open about it. As Neil Peart said you Bet Your Life on any worldview that decide to adopt - whether is a religious or athiestic view of life. We all take that step into the unknown to some degree. I like the phrase 'a single word that takes the world to war'. Were you referring to fundementalists belief here? Maybe this is a theme that could be woven into the song. I also like the phrase 'To the faithful' or 'To the faithless' which could be a phrase incorporated into the song maybe...

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:17:38 +0100

I've updated the Radiohead style song, now named 'The Faithless' and posted it on box.net. Lots of overlayed guitars and vocals - mix isn't great but gives us an idea about the slow build up. Needs something else though - the dreaded middle eight!!

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:59:01 +0100

More on Faithless - I've been thinking more about the general theme for this song, if we use it. Using the picturethoughts demo, it could be a reflection on someone's inner turmoil regarding what religious faith is all about - the fact that faith requires no proof, that in some ways it flies in the face of evidence. I don't want it to be anti-religion, or even pro-religion. Thought of the first 2 lines on my lunchtime walk:

"A river flows behind my thoughts
a single word that takes the world to war"

and the catch in the chorus could be
"They call me the faithless"

We could call the song "The Faithless", so it is different to the Rush version. Some progress at least.

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:24:53 +0100

Just some more thoguhts about the 'Glass' idea. Firstly, I quite like this as a possible song title. It's got a simple, clean feel about it that I like.
I guess my thinking with the title was that we all walk around in public as if surrounded by glass - we can see everything around us, but we don't often interact with strangers around us - even in very crowded situations we try to maintain our personal space, never looking at anyones eyes or even registering their presence. This fragile facade can be broken, for instance if we are accosted by someone trying to sell something, or get you to fill in a questionnaire. I personally find this quite annoying, and I think it's because that glass I've surrounded myself with has been shattered. I think it becomes interesting when we do something within our glass environement that is obvious to everyone else, such as speak on a mobile phone. In some cases, it's as if we think we are still in the solitary environment and no one can see us, but it can actually be quite a disturbance (or interesting diversion) to hear someone speaking on a mobile phone in public. I guess I'm a bit of a technophobe when it comes to this sort of thing. I saw 2 guys in the supermarket yesterday seemingly talking to themselves until I saw the small device in their ear - I felt like I should be in a Star Trek episode. Am I getting old, do you think?

In response to:Welcome to Deadwing music

Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:32:46 +0100

I've just listened to Glass and Picturethoughts. There's definitely some material there that we can use. I particularly like the chorus to Glass, v. unusual. And I just love the mellow, Radiohead like atmosphere of the PictureThoughts. I'll try to think of some ideas for lyrics too. I noticed that box.net has an option for embedding the folder into a blog. I might try that later...

Anyway keep up the good work!