Welcome to Deadwing music

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Welcome to Deadwing music

by deadwingmusic @ Friday, Mar. 09, 2007 – 09:43:26 pm

This web site is dedicated to the creation of Deadwing music. The music and this blog is authored by Gav and Rich and we wanted to create this blog to leave a trail of the creative process that has gone into the making of the music. We used to be called New World (rather embarassingly) and our music (and lyrics) were very different to Deadwing. Deadwing marked a change in approach to both the music writing and recording and more of an edge to the lyric writing. A more sceptical edge rather than a naive slant which was the style of New World. I will post some recent e-mail exhanges on this blog.

We use e-mails to exchange thoughts which we hope gives Gav some creative kickstart to write some lyrics, ready for when we get together and record in March...
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22 Comments to Welcome to Deadwing music

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- picturethoughts
- Sunday, Mar. 11, 2007 @ 11:04:57 am
I think the best way of sharing thoughts would be to be co-authors - not sure how we do this. I've created an account named picturethoughts, but this has simply created another blog site. However, I can add comments to this blog, so maybe that's the way we do it. Do you know if there is any way of posting pictures?
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- picturethoughts
- Monday, Mar. 12, 2007 @ 07:02:51 pm
I'm quite interested in this theme of faith we seem to be pursuing. I have been going through a difficult spell with the church over the past few years, essentially not really being sure what I believe anymore. It has now got to a point where I don't attend church as I felt rather hypocritical, and I just didn't like it. So I think there is a counter argument to your idea of Pascals
wager, whereby we accept religion just in case because it doesn't do any harm and can actually make life better (excuse me paraphrasing). The counter argument would be that religion can actually be harmful. In my case the main thing that religion has made me feel is guilt - guilt that I haven't done more for the church, guilt that I haven't prayed enough and don't read the bible
enough etc.

A lot of the sermons I've heard over the years have been about how bad we are as humans and how we need to do better in following God. Now that I've made a decision to turn away from the church, that sense of guilt has
gone. I think you can lead a life without faith in a God, and still have a fulfilling life. I know we are living in a very privileged position and things in life could easily take a turn for the worse, but at the moment I have had a great life and have been especially enjoying the natural world with the family (i.e. birdwatching) and I have some really interesting hobbies (Deadwing) and I've got an interesting job, so for me, if this carries on and I die when I'm in my ?70s or 80s (hopefully even older) I'll be quite happy that I've had a good life.
The fact that there may be no heaven at the end of it all isn't too relevant, as this world is good enough (at least for me). It seems that religion is rising in areas that are under developed, and I suspect that the poverty and difficulty of life makes the need in the security of something better in the future more important. I think the question at the end of all this is - is religion necessary anymore or are we growing out of it as we become more self-reliant. (Although there seems to be a general feeling that people are more miserable now than ever before !!)

The other theme I've mentioned before is taken up in the title of the latest demo - "Glass". I actually just picked this word out of the air (I think I subliminally picked it up from a combination of Philip Glass, and the new UI feature in Windows Vista which allows forms to look like Glass). But thinking about it, Glass can be an interesting barrier. I've been aware of times in public places where there is a glass window separating two public areas, and peple can stand against the glass and be in very close proximity with another person, way within the personal zone, but the glass makes it acceptable. It's another way of closing the signals of communication - similar to the mobile phone, iPod, games machine, PC that I've mentioned before. We can still be
very visible but non-accessible. Another twist on this is the recent trend in on-line multiplayer games and universes like world of warcraft and second life. I read an Arthur C Clarke novel when I was a teenager and he predicted a future human existence where our bodies are withered and supported by medical machines, but our minds are in a virtual world where everything is as we would want it. It seems we are heading in that direction. I don't know how healthy it is to take on a fake identity in a virtual world, but certainly very
interesting. I've got friends who are really hooked on WoW.
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- picturethoughts
- Thursday, Mar. 15, 2007 @ 04:43:08 pm
Just some more thoughts on the Fibonacci idea. First of all I'd quite like to do this as a dance record. Instead of the King Crimson, jarring guitars idea, we could make it a fast dance track, with minimal vocals, perhaps a repeating vocal sequence, but no traditional verse/chorus/middle eight. It would be a way of really stretching the musical boundaries a bit without being confined to a song template. We could add a lot of musical changes, allowing us to try out some of your more interesting sounds, and even a tempo change somewhere (I've heard King Crimson change the tempo for a few bars in the middle of a song and it sounds great). I've got some ideas that I can hear in my head, so will have to try to get them down and send you a demo. But it should revolve around the Fibonacci sequence - a sequence which is frequently mirrored in art and nature, so some interesting concepts - look up the golden ratio and sunflowers if you're interested. It could still have quite heavy rock drumming in places. Perhaps more like Ghostwheel than anything else - a musical showcase rather than an attempt to copy current bands which is a failure of mine sometimes. Let me know what you think.
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- deadwingrich
- Thursday, Mar. 15, 2007 @ 05:32:15 pm
What a great title for a song! I'm glad you've found a resolution to your faith issues. I gathered your faith was in crisis (if that's not too strong a term) when you were down last time. I agree with what you say about the church being a destructive and negative force at times. This guilt thing is a real problem for me also and I wonder whether the church as it currently constituted was what was originally envisaged! Probably not. I'm sure the church to a large degree has lost the plot. My faith crisis hasn't gone as deep as yours, but I certainly struggle with certain aspects of it. I can't work out whether I'm too cowardly to finally let go, or whether my faith goes very deep and there's a vestige of something that is worth hanging onto. I hope its the latter but I'm realistic enough to realise that religion could be my placebo for life that I'm betting my life on something I'm hoping will work out for the best. One thing that really bugs me about some people in the church is that consider doubt a sin! Surely if there were no doubt there could be no faith, otherwise there would be certainty in its place. Faith and doubt are strange bedfellows I think. I envy some of the certainty you seem to have found. Maybe in the quest for faith, doubt is just an integral part of it. But surely it can't be a sin - that guilt thing again which you were talking about!!

Anyway, onto Fibonachi. I love that idea about a dance/electro song. I've always wanted to do something like that. I'm really into Chemical Brothers, Underworld, Future Sound of London and I would love to cut loose from the traditional verse, chorus, M8 liturgy. I'd like to create an evolving song that builds on an idea and then see where is goes. We have experimented with drum loops in the past and this would be a development of that idea.

I've got some great sounds to try and some great tools that create loops which you can change in real time....
- - picturethoughts
  - Friday, Mar. 16, 2007 @ 01:23:35 pm
  So sounds like we're getting closer to a list of songs
  i.e. 1. Fibonacci - dance
  2. Glass (Provisional title - another option for title = 'No Signal' not so keen on this) - general theme could be the way we can shut ourselves off from everyone else - giving out no signal, hiding behind glass of some sort - i.e we can be seen but are not available. e need to expand a little on this to get some lyrical ideas
  3. Perhaps a slower song, theme being faith - I wondered about the title 'Faithless' - still fairly open on this one. The Radiohead-like demo 'Picture thoughts' is one option. Have also uploaded a demo called 'faithless' - not sure about this one yet.
  
  Hope I haven't upset your own faith with my comments. You've always seemed to have a very strong church commitment. But it is an interesting point that someone who is absolutely certain of the existence of God and never questions it becomes somehow beyond Faith into conviction - and I don't know how healthy that is - perhaps verging into extremism. I've sometimes been in situations where there is a problem, perhaps someone is ill, and a very extreme christian will talk about the fact that if we have enough faith in our prayers that the person will be healed - that it is the amount of belief we have in the power of God to heal that determines whether it will happen. And I have prayed with utter conviction that my prayers will be answered. Of course, when the prayer isn't answered as you would want it is rather a blow to that extreme faith. I must admit I find the whole concept of prayer hard to understand, as so many prayers are what we want rather than what God wants, but if we pray 'Let your will be done' - then what's the point, as prayer can't change Gods will.
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- deadwingrich
- Thursday, Mar. 15, 2007 @ 05:34:08 pm
I meant to say 'Faith and Fibonachi' - what a great title for song!
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- deadwingrich
- Friday, Mar. 16, 2007 @ 11:05:35 pm
Three really good ideas for songs. I like the fact that each are quite different and each take us in new directions.

Don't worry about your comments. I love talking about this sort of stuff. If faith can't be challenged then it isn't worth having in my view. I agree absolutely with your comments about extremism and fundamentalism. I find fundamentalism in all its forms very disturbing. I also doubt that people who say that they have this utter conviction really actually do. I think fundamentalism springs from a mindset that has some deep rooted insecurity. Someone wrote "to eliminate ambiguity and confusion one must attack its source. Figurative language. That is the danger that must be avoided at all costs because in place of the literal figurative language introduces the play of meaning. The need to sustain complex connections at the level of thought (not fact) through the evolution of mental abilities that are necessarily connected with developing all the metaphoric resources of language. The literal in contrast puts an end to thought. It offers the mind a way to shut down, to reify itself. It thereby exorcises the greatest fear: interpretation and its inevitable result, the conflict of interpretations and with it the terror of being forever bereft of dogmatic certitudes." Heavy stuff hey! But true I think.

I also agree with your assertion about prayer, a lot of which is self centred and ego centric. A lot of it isn't, but many people have a very naive self centred view of prayer. What is real prayer... well that's an interesting question!
- - picturethoughts
  - Saturday, Mar. 17, 2007 @ 10:06:34 pm
  We can forget about calling a song faithless - Rush have announced the song list on the new album and 'Faithless' is one of the titles.
  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakes_&_Arrows#Track_listing)___##0##___ Back to the drawing board I guess. Far Cry sounds very good though.
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- deadwingrich
- Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 @ 08:46:27 am
Isn't that just typical! I don't really have a problem with calling a song the same name as another band. Maybe we wouldn't be worried if it was any other band. Song names aren't exclusive. We did think of it before we heard about the name. But if you're that uncomfortable about it no worries. BTW the art work is on the HMV web site. Exciting times though - another Rush album and Far Cry does sound good doesn't it.
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- deadwingrich
- Tuesday, Mar. 20, 2007 @ 10:32:46 pm
I've just listened to Glass and Picturethoughts. There's definitely some material there that we can use. I particularly like the chorus to Glass, v. unusual. And I just love the mellow, Radiohead like atmosphere of the PictureThoughts. I'll try to think of some ideas for lyrics too. I noticed that box.net has an option for embedding the folder into a blog. I might try that later...

Anyway keep up the good work!
- - picturethoughts
  - Wednesday, Mar. 21, 2007 @ 12:24:53 pm
  Just some more thoguhts about the 'Glass' idea. Firstly, I quite like this as a possible song title. It's got a simple, clean feel about it that I like.
  I guess my thinking with the title was that we all walk around in public as if surrounded by glass - we can see everything around us, but we don't often interact with strangers around us - even in very crowded situations we try to maintain our personal space, never looking at anyones eyes or even registering their presence. This fragile facade can be broken, for instance if we are accosted by someone trying to sell something, or get you to fill in a questionnaire. I personally find this quite annoying, and I think it's because that glass I've surrounded myself with has been shattered. I think it becomes interesting when we do something within our glass environement that is obvious to everyone else, such as speak on a mobile phone. In some cases, it's as if we think we are still in the solitary environment and no one can see us, but it can actually be quite a disturbance (or interesting diversion) to hear someone speaking on a mobile phone in public. I guess I'm a bit of a technophobe when it comes to this sort of thing. I saw 2 guys in the supermarket yesterday seemingly talking to themselves until I saw the small device in their ear - I felt like I should be in a Star Trek episode. Am I getting old, do you think?
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- picturethoughts
- Wednesday, Mar. 21, 2007 @ 12:59:01 pm
More on Faithless - I've been thinking more about the general theme for this song, if we use it. Using the picturethoughts demo, it could be a reflection on someone's inner turmoil regarding what religious faith is all about - the fact that faith requires no proof, that in some ways it flies in the face of evidence. I don't want it to be anti-religion, or even pro-religion. Thought of the first 2 lines on my lunchtime walk:

"A river flows behind my thoughts
a single word that takes the world to war"

and the catch in the chorus could be
"They call me the faithless"

We could call the song "The Faithless", so it is different to the Rush version. Some progress at least.
- - picturethoughts
  - Wednesday, Mar. 21, 2007 @ 10:17:38 pm
  I've updated the Radiohead style song, now named 'The Faithless' and posted it on box.net. Lots of overlayed guitars and vocals - mix isn't great but gives us an idea about the slow build up. Needs something else though - the dreaded middle eight!!
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- deadwingrich
- Wednesday, Mar. 21, 2007 @ 10:38:16 pm
I like the ideas for faithless or The Faithless and the few lines you have sound good. It's interesting that essentially faith is irrational and many of 'the faithful' don't like to admit that. They construct elaborate proofs around their particular worldview and forget that to actually setp inside their little constructed world takes an irrational step of faith. Now I don't have a problem with that, but I think you have to be honest and open about it. As Neil Peart said you Bet Your Life on any worldview that decide to adopt - whether is a religious or athiestic view of life. We all take that step into the unknown to some degree. I like the phrase 'a single word that takes the world to war'. Were you referring to fundementalists belief here? Maybe this is a theme that could be woven into the song. I also like the phrase 'To the faithful' or 'To the faithless' which could be a phrase incorporated into the song maybe...
- - picturethoughts
  - Friday, Mar. 23, 2007 @ 12:28:25 pm
  I think the line about faith leading to war is based on the worn out argument that all wars are started because of religion. I don't know if this is quite true, but it does seem that most of the ongoing wars or terrorism is linked to religion in some way. I was amazed as well to hear about a case where a devout christian in America murdered a doctor, I think, who was involved in providing abortions. The person was considered to be a very good Christian, if that's the right word, and he apparently felt he had done the right thing, arguing that by taking one life he had saved many others. So it is interesting the deep faith can lead to both extremes of human nature - to extreme love and extreme hate. On one hand someone give their life to save someone else, because this is the love that their religion teaches them, and on the other hand someone kills because of their religious beliefs. This idea may be worth adding to the lyrics somehow.
  
  I've worked on the song a little more and developed some of the melody lines. In the latest demo (2The Faithless") I changed the original vocal line for the verse, and tried a different chorus, but I've decided the original verse was better, and have also changed the chorus, so I guess I'll demo this live next week. I've incorporated the line 'To the faithless' - so the chorus goes:
  'They call me the faithless x 2
  This is to the faithless' x 2
  I was also looking at multi-layering vocal lines towards the end of the song as it builds up. I think we could almost build it up to the point of shouting. Don't know if I can pull that off, but might be fun. There is a song I heard recently by the Proclaimers which is incredible because the second half of the song is basically the two of them shouting out the same phrase repeatedly until it becomes unrecognisable.
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- deadwingrich
- Wednesday, Mar. 21, 2007 @ 10:47:38 pm
The 'Glass' theme is sounding good too. It's interesting that we all like to create our own little glass cocoons. And we only like that cocoon to be penetrated by means that we permit. Mobiles and iPods create that cocoon and Mobiles can penetrate it too. People let in their own little mobile friends, fanatasies etc. I think that these glass cocoons are a modern, urban phenomenon. Because life presses on us, and our personal spaces are invaded by those around us on the tube, on the train, on the bus, on the pavements, in tiny flats, etc etc there's no escape. The only way out is to create our own little virtual space with technology. Japan which is the most densely populated country in the world has the highest demand for miniature, personal technology gadgets. It's interesting that if you're on the top of a desolate mountain the last thing you want is an ipod or mobile phone. Your little glass dome has just expanded by thousands of miles and you just want to expand to fill the space and not be limited by your technological glass barrier.
- - picturethoughts
  - Friday, Mar. 23, 2007 @ 09:26:31 pm
  I think this is why I enjoy camping so much, because it does have that sense of getting away from the pressures of modern life, and you can be outdoors in public view, but not need those glass cocoons. Interesting that when I'm out walking near the canal that runs next to our house, meeting someone on the way always prompts a greeting of some sort - it's sort of rude not to say hello to strangers in these circumstances. In the city, it is the opposite. It's almost as if we share the space by the canal with others, but in the city we keep our space very tightly to ourselves.
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- picturethoughts
- Friday, Mar. 23, 2007 @ 12:34:38 pm
I think a lot of other people have looked at how the Fibonacci sequence can be used in music, one of them calling their piece 'Fibonacci'. I think some of this is more computational creation of music, but some composers in the past have apparently used the sequence.

http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibInArt.html#music

Quite interesting reading. Somewhere in here I saw a comment about Mozart and the fact that he experimented a little in using random sequences to generate music. Perhaps we should have a short sequence in the final song which is generated randomly.
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- picturethoughts
- Sunday, Mar. 25, 2007 @ 04:13:11 pm
I know you won't be happy with this, but I'm quite keen on doing a 4th song. I've written quite a mellow, laid back song which I can't get out of my head, and I think it could be really good. However, I don't want to lose any of the other ideas as we have spent a lot of time in thinking about themes, and I've got a lot of musical ideas for 'Glass' and 'The Faithless'. I also don't want to lose the experimental 'dance' track (although I think I want to lose the 'Fibonacci' title). I know we are always pushed for time even with 3 songs, but I reckon we can do a 4th if we lose a bit of final mixing time and keep the song simple - I guess the mixing could be done remotely. The song is actually on box.net under the title 'Faithless' - my original idea for this name, but now the radiohead style song is called the Faithless, I'm thinking of calling it something like 'Sacred' or 'Fated' - has to be similar 2 syllable word to fit the song. Sacred could be how our lives are sacred, perhaps, irrespective of religion. Also like the idea of fate - perhaps something to think about.
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- deadwingrich
- Sunday, Mar. 25, 2007 @ 04:37:40 pm
Hi there, I'm relaxed about the number of songs we do. The fact that we now have much more flexibility after the event with Sonar/Cubase which makes the final mix down much less critical. We can even fine tune the songs and add bits later. I remember when we did Little Circle, which was very simple, we got the main elements down and I always wanted to come back and add little bits to it, but we couldn't as it was on 16 track ADAT. Now we have that more options, so if we have time lets go for it. It is important that we get the vocals well recorded whatever we do, and the main ideas for each instrument. Extras can come later. I also like the idea of Sacred or Fated. I quite like the ambiguity of some of titles e.g. the sacred nature of our lives regardless of religion. I think there is real scope here. I'll listen to the stuff on box and let you know what I think.
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- picturethoughts
- Thursday, May. 10, 2007 @ 10:28:09 pm
So, few weeks after the recording session - I'm listening through the rough mixes again - very happy with the 3 songs we've created. 'The Faithless' - a kind of musing on religion and what it means - bit undecided, unlike the Rush version of 'Faithless' which is very much against religion. Great slow start and gentle increase in tempo. Brilliant Muse-like middle section - lovely synth sounds on this track.

Chaotica (or Kaotika - not sure how it's spelt yet) - totally made up on the day. Inspired a bit by a Bjork dance track. Was originally going to be based around a Fibonacci sequence riff, but that went out the window and we went with an odd C chord that Rich understands better then I do. Lovely mellow sound despite the heavy randomised drums. Still some work to do on this - maybe using the impromtu bits of speech recorded on the day.

And 'Glass', pretty much as I wrote it originally, redeemed I think by a last minute change in drum sounds from Rock to a more techno sound - again some great synth sounds that make the song. I like the odd rhythm in this one - probably the most interesting rhythm we've done.

Altogether a good recording session - lots of laughs, occasional worries, trance dancing and a red cowbot hat - what could be better. Keen to start writing and recording some new stuff now.
- - deadwingrich
  - Saturday, May. 12, 2007 @ 06:46:43 pm
  It's been good to put a bit of a distance between the recording session and taking stock of the results. I'm really, really pleased too with the results. I do love 'The Faithless' and the way is subtly speeds up and builds to that great M8.
  
  I'm also pleased overall with the guitar sounds (and bass too). The Guitar Rig 2 made a real difference I think and gave us a lot more options and flexibility. I just love those Fripp/Muse-like guitar solos in all the songs. It add an edgy quality to the songs.
  
  Chaotica/Kaotika I really like (I like the 'K'). Very mellow chords over this mad dance/industrial rythmn. And written and recorded in a matter of hours really. The others were much more of a struggle, but this just seemed to flow.
  
  Glass is cool too. I lovely the funky/mellow feel to it, contrasting with the mad techo-like synth line.
  
  I really enjoyed this recording session - like you said the hat and the laughs were great - even though at one point I thought it was all going to fall apart, but we always feel like that at some point, it seems to be part of the process. Roll on next time!
  
  In the meantime - mix down... Watch for more threads on this
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Welcome to Deadwing music

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